Hypocrisy, or "I noodle on why literary noodling annoys me"

[rootofnewt]

I find it very frustrating to relate to people sometimes. They're slow. I dislike postmodern literary noodling. I fail to see the entertainment in reading a novel where the writer is merely fondling an idea, turning it over and over, revelling in this idea. For me, I saw the idea the first time and saw all possible permutations. Why dwell on it? I'd rather dwell on the implications of that idea. I'd rather dwell of the sociopolitical climate in which the original novel was written and the climates which followed. I'd rather think about the implications that impact might have had on a specific society and the impacts that novel (or even official state interpretations of that novel) had later.

I quite often found classroom literature discussions boring. I enjoy discussing potentialialities, not realities. What happened in the novel is set. It happened. Why did it happen? That's interesting. Was writing this novel revolutionary? That's interesting. What was happening in the author's society at that time, what philosophers did the writer find intriguing, maddening, outrageous? All cool. Noodling over a character's motivation for pages and pages and pages? That's not interesting to me. That's not revolutionary. That's not insightful (though it does tell me that the writer might be a clueless git).

Boy tells me that few people have instantaneous pattern recognition. They have to noodle in order to recognize the patterns. That's okay, but do they have to read the noodling of someone else in order to recognize patterns in another story? Did that noodler need to publish a book of zir noodling? What is the purpose of all this noodling? It seems excessively masturbatory and obvious.

In case you can't figure it out, The Unbearable Lightness of Being is quite aptly titled. One concept, tumbled over and over, becoming less refined and more concrete all at once. The fun is taken out of the abstract. Of course, if just one early paragraph were to stand alone, it would be perfectly rendered, abstract, heavy and light all at once--a wonderful duality. But it wouldn't be unbearable, which I suppose is the essence of the book. I'm afraid to read anything else Kundera has written. And you know what? Tolstoy did it better and he did it earlier.

Comments

[rat-bastard.livejournal.com]

Speaking of... You should read Pattern Recognition by William Gibson. :)

[krues8dr.livejournal.com]

Tolstoy did it better and he did it earlier.
I know I *should* read Tolstoy, but haven't. What should I read?

[krasota.livejournal.com]

http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/tolstoy/TolBiblio.html

For starters, I'd say:
Anna Karenina
The Cossacks

The Kreutzer Sonata (though perhaps this is best left until after becoming more familiar with his work and his philosphies. I suppose it's not a good intro piece, though I feel it's very much a defining piece. Many brush it off as something written by a man who had succumbed to religion and fear.)

War and Peace, and of course, The Death of Ivan Ilyich, are also quite important works.

If you want to get into philosophy, etc, there are many options, but I'd start with:
"Writings on Civil Disobedience and Nonviolence"
"What I Believe"
"What is Art?"
"What is to be done?"

You'd also need to read some Chernyshevsky and Dobrolyubov, among other writers/philosophers, and to read up on some historical/biographical information, to get a good sense for what the intellectual climate was like in which those ideas were coming to pass.

[krues8dr.livejournal.com]

Excellent. Thanks for the list, I now have Anna Karenina sitting on my shelf. (downtown used bookstores rule!) I have to admit that I'm largely ignorant of literature, particularly Russian, having only recently discovered non-technical books - but I'm desperately trying to catch up.

[krasota.livejournal.com]

If I'd known you would go right out, I'd have discussed the available translations with you. ;) Which one did you pick up?

[explodingcat.livejournal.com]

Here's to being well read! I am a literature student by training, in a technical career by accident. I have a hard time cracking open a technical book when I have piles of world literature on my shelves. I enjoy slavic humor and their surrealist writers. Nikolai Gogol and Mikhail Bulgakov are good. I've also read a little Vladimir Voinovich, who is more contemporary and less absurd, but is great for poignant and funny satire.

[explodingcat.livejournal.com]

I like noodles. They taste good with a fish broth and a dash of soy.

[jb98.livejournal.com]

Alas, only rice noodles for me ;)

[cuppe.livejournal.com]

Hmm, I'm going to take this as an opening to ask if you've read this book, The Winter Queen by Boris Akunin. It's a question I've meant to ask you for awhile, as you were the only person I could think of that would have possibly read it. I really liked it and am holding off being the second one in English translation as a special treat.
Sorry to divert the topic, back to your regularly scheduled thread.

[krasota.livejournal.com]

No, I haven't. I rarely read mysteries, but I've recently discovered that I enjoy historical mysteries. I'll go find that book and read it sometime soon. It looks promising.

I recently read A Conspiracy of Paper, by David Liss. His protagonist is based on Daniel Mendoza, an 18th century Jewish pugilist. It was a fascinating read.

[cuppe.livejournal.com]

not to enable you or anything, but they have a bunch of used copies on amazon.com starting at 3.00. Their shipping charge on that is 3.49, making the order fairly cheap, if you want to trust the whole used thing. I've bought bunches of used books from them with no problems, but I'm aware you have additional needs that govern your purchasing.

I added A Conspiracy of Paper to my wish list as it looks like something I would like.

Have either you or Exploding Cat read the Thursday Next books? I've read the first two, own the third and am eagerly awaiting the the third one.

[cuppe.livejournal.com]

err, the FOURTH ONE. I can't count for beans today.

[krasota.livejournal.com]

Okies. I read The Winter Queen yesterday. I enjoyed it, though I felt the ending was a bit choppy and rushed. I'm wishing my brain fog would lift, because I think I'd enjoy reading this book in Russian. I'd also like to see what kinds of liberties the translator took. There were some things which weren't explained that might not be overly obvious to a non-Russophile, and other things which seemed to be footnoted more than a Russian reader would expect. I really liked the details of the civil servant hierarchy, though.

It appears Akunin has written a dozen or so Fandorin novels. I might have to order them and read them in Russian. It would take longer for me to read them, but I might be able to get my brain to work better. On the other hand, I might blow a fuse. Thanks for the recommendation.

[cuppe.livejournal.com]

The second English translation is actually the third in the series, which is wildly annoying for those of us whom don't know Russian. The actual second book is scheduled to be released in 2005, but I don't know if I can wait that long to read it and preserve the series integrity. From what I've read when trying to find out more about this book, there are a lot of sites and discussions relating to the series and it's quite popular. I can't quite put my finger on why I liked it as much as I did but I've been proselytizing this book to people here. I sent my copy to my dad, who also might enjoy it, should he ever get a chance to read for pleasure.

If you do end up reading these in Russian, give me a few hints. I've just started The Well of Lost Plots and have your suggestion on my wish list. It seems to be part of a series, and looks really interesting. I'm changing jobs and will be out of work a week, so will not be buying books in the near future but will resume again once I get paid. :) I'll also be taking the metro in to work so will probably be reading at a faster clip than I do now.

[krasota.livejournal.com]

I was trying to figure out from Akunin's website what the book order is. Thanks. :) The "Winter Queen" is actually on his website in text format, albeit in Russian. If my eyes can handle it, I might try reading it soon . . . it all depends on how bad the brain fog is.

I picked up another book by David Liss--The Coffee Trader--at the library. I like it (again, the futures exchange and a Jewish community, this time in The Netherlands), but I'm remembering why I rarely read mysteries from the library. Most people who read them seem to wear perfume and use air freshener. I'm getting ill from the damn book! I prefer to own books I read, anyhow, so I think I'll have to start buying them. Oh, for limitless disposable income!

I haven't read any of the Thursday Next books. They look hilarious. Maybe I'll check them out.

If you have cheesy fun, try P.N. Elrod's, The Vampire Files series. Mix '30s detective novel (gangland) with vampire novel. They're damn funny books--they read like twisted film noir.

Have you read any China Miéville? He's our current new favorite author. His latest book just came out. Boy was kind enough to order it right off when I said, "WHAT! WANT! NOW!"

I miss you folks. Wanna come visit Cvlle? Or perhaps meet for a day in SNP?

[seeliespright.livejournal.com]

Heh, I despise when authors "noodle," as you describe it.

Although i'm afraid that at time I may do that... I like to think however, that I have a main idea and develop and expand it through a paper (while being sure to maintain my argument).

My last semester in English class has made me more concise. I can now write a 6-8pg paper in 4. Good for my readers even though it takes me just as long to write it.

Mr. and Mrs. Tolstoy

[evilcresyluna.livejournal.com]

>Tolstoy did it better and he did it earlier.

Ah, this hasn't really anything to do with the post, but reminded me of the part in Twenty Years at Hull House where Jane Addams is invited to dine with Tolstoy and family. Very roughly paraphrased:
Tolstoy: "What excess fabric in your dress! Did you know that if one were to take all the excess fabric from a modern lady's dress, it could be used as a full dress for a little girl?"
Mrs Tolstoy: "Dear, we tried that, remember? Not even the tiniest of little girls could fit in such a dress. Do forgive him."
Tolstoy: "And why aren't you using shared labor instead of having your foods shipped into the city from the country?"